I figured instead of hijackign that thread we would start a new one. I did a tiny bit of research to provide some background for those that are not familiar with teh topic.
This write up is interesting and uses what is happening in Venezuela (GOV attempting to seize food and supplies from those that prepped prior to the shortage) as a catalyst for discussing whether that would/could happen here in the US.
COULD PREPPING BECOME ILLEGAL HERE TOO? VENEZUELAN GOVT TO DETAIN “HOARDERS”
Among other things, discusses the cultural change in the US over the past 50 years to where it is not acceptable to take from the wealthy and other social changes that may provide the basis and support for the US GOV to enact laws that take from those that prepped to give to those that did not.
Preppers Beware : Our “Hoarding” Can Be Deemed Illegal
Discusses the 2012 Law signe dby President Obama an how it could be used to take preps from ‘hoarders”.
They Will Seize Your Food and Resources: “Hoarding of Just About Anything Can Be Banned”
Thank you for the info, I have not thought about this. The reason I joined this community is to find out stuff like this! It does not surprise me though, here in freakin’ NY everything is illegal! ( Governor bluomo MUST be voted out). The article states distribute evenly, I doubt it, more like keep it for themselves. Gonna do some more research on this as my prepping is starting to get real!
If you find additional or different info please share here
First, I have no problems with helping my neighbors out in time of need if I have the capability of doing so. I don’t have enough supplies that the government would want to confiscate. If they want a 100 pounds of meat in my freezer, then I’m their man.
While I do not necessarily agree with the executive order (EO) here are my thoughts.
I believe the goal of the EO was to allow a government to come in and take what was needed in order to support an operation. Let’s just say for example in Washington State which recently had a mud slide, if you owned a piece of equipment that could save lives and you said to the search and rescue teams, national guard, state police “No, you can’t use my special digger” they could take it under this order. Or how about you own a marina that has fuel and a coast guard boat comes in which is on a mission (active drug seizure, search and rescue, something else important not just every day activities) and they roll in needing fuel but have no way to pay for you. They simply take it. Reminds me very much of a communist country honestly and I don’t like that.
On the other hand if I owned that piece of equipment I would jump on it long before they knew I had it and I’d be looking for people to save lives. If I owned that marina and the coast guard said “We need fuel” I would give it to them freely with the knowledge that I could send a bill to the coast guard base commander and be reimbursed. Now if they had me at gun point I’m pretty sure I would not turn on the pump and I would say “The pump is dead, the repair guy is to be here later today”. You try to take something from me by force and I will resist.
I’m not going to be that subway in New York City during 9/11 who wouldn’t give first responders bottled water without them paying.
With that said, you then have people such as the Ohio man that was recently killed by police. He called himself a ‘Sovereign Citizen‘. Mind you, this person had a warrant for his arrest so there is more to the story than we read about. The government doesn’t normally just issue warrants for peoples arrest without a reason, and I still wonder what that warrant was for. The second question I asked was “What is a sovereign citizen?”. So I did some reading.
First, the FBI views these people as domestic terrorists so be mindful what you talk about: click here
It almost sounds glamours. Essentially it’s the ability to live without the government telling you what you can and cannot do. The methodology reminds me of historical readings about the Native Americans. They believed that no one ‘owned’ the land and that it was for all. However, one key point is that even Native Americans had a form of Government. They had a chief. Even they knew that the ‘Sovereign Citizen’ thing does not work.
So why do I bring this up? I can see how the actions that the government takes can push an American who stands up tall during the national anthem, who says the pledge of allegiance at the opening of a boy scout troop meeting, who believes in America finally turn and say “Screw this”. Can someone still be an American and a Sovereign Citizen? I’m not sure, maybe. If the government comes to confiscate your property under the EO I’m sure that Sovereign Citizen movement would look pretty tempting.
Going to a biblical stance Romans chapter 13 says that we need to obey government authority, that we need to pay our taxes, and to love your neighbor.
So what can you do?
1. Use common sense when buying things. We know that every credit card purchase is tracked. Heck, the government probably has the ability to link the transaction number of your credit card to the receipt and then the ability to pull up the receipt and look at what you purchased, to the extend of how many banana’s you bought based on the scale weight.
2. Do what you can for yourself in the garden. Grow your own vegetables. Sure the government might pull up a sat image of your property but I doubt they are going to do that just to see how many hot pepper plants you have unless they are after you for another reason. I canned 100 pounds of tomatoes last year, we’ve been using them in salsa, spaghetti sauce, and when I was pulling them fresh daily they would go on my burgers. Sure they can probably track how many mason jars you purchased, but those jars last forever, just pay cash if you are that worried.
3. Do what you can for yourself by hunting and fishing. In PA when you kill a deer you are to report it. So obviously last year I reported both deer that I killed as per state law. But how much of that meat do i still have? I don’t think the state would ever consider that hoarding, after all, a good size deer only brings in 50 – 65 pounds of meat. Then when you fish, yes, there are limits. Yes there are also limits on how many you can have in your freezer for certain fish. Other fish, there are no limits on how many you can have in your freezer. The government doesn’t know if you caught 1 fish or 100 fish.
4. Raise your own animals. I buy chicken feed, it’s tracked, I write it off on my taxes because of my business. Am I worried that the government knows I have chickens? No, I’m not. If you are going to come to my house and take away my 40 – 50 chickens for some government operation then so be it. But I think the government would be more interested if you went to Costo and purchased 3000 pounds of chicken breasts than having some back yard chickens that will generate you 5-7 eggs a week per bird. Do I have 3 dozen eggs? Yes, and sometimes more, depends on what my wife is cooking. Same goes if you decide to have a goat for milk, or in my case, raise rabbits for meat. I can’t tell you the last time I purchased chicken meat at the store. We simply use rabbit meat in place of chicken in almost every dish. Rabbit and Dumplings, Rabbit Fried Rice, Rabbit Casserole, and such. There is not a single person here that can tell me “I don’t have space for rabbits”. You need three cages, 36×30 inches in size, that’s it. Indoors, outdoors, doesn’t matter. Each doe gives me between 18 and 30 pounds of good quality meat every 4 months. Hell, if someone was actually tracking our purchases at the store they might think we are vegetarians 🙂
Use common sense, use OPSEC, I wouldn’t be worried about this EO for now. I can’t see how it’s constitutional anyway. When a disaster happens the government will do what it wan’ts with or without an EO, look at Katrina.
That info on the sovereign citizen movement was really interesting. While some of there activities were clearly illegal I could see bias in the FBIs write up in an attempt to demonize the folks that held those believes. Regardless of whether they participated in the extremist illegal side of the sovereign citizen movement.
Someone can live close to a sovereign citizen lifestyle if they wanted, but there really can’t be such a thing. After all, what protects a so called sovereign citizen from foreign invaders? About 80 million American hunters and the US military. They still need to follow some rules of the land. They will still need to pay some taxes. For instance, one could, if they wanted, be homeless. Live in a van. Boondock on state forests. The only rules is that you must relocate every x number of days (Not sure if it’s 14 or 30) a certain number of miles from the original location. Your camp cannot be permanent. You must follow the leave no trace rule. You could live off the land. What taxes would you pay? Well, vehicle registration and gas tax. I guess if you wanted, you could have a horse and live like that. Living off the land? Better pick a state like Florida or Texas where you could go after wild pigs or other animals that don’t require a hunting license. I guess if you really wanted to be completely off grid you could move to Alaska or the far reaches of the Canadian north.
As for the government coming after your preps. I thought Mormons where required to have a years worth of food or something like that?
“If you see some Middle Eastern guy come in, you don’t have to be so worried about that”
Paul Joseph Watson
April 16, 2014
FBI counterterrorism agents are visiting gun shops in South Carolina to investigate “suspicious purchases” made by people who talk about “big government,” according to a new report.
Author Brandon Turbeville says he was approached by an individual who works in a Columbia, South Carolina gun shop to relate the story of how an FBI agent entered the store on Monday, showed his credentials, before proceeding to ask a series of stunning questions.
Telling the gun store worker he was tasked with visiting all the firearms outlets in the local area to check on “suspicious purchases” for counterterrorism purposes, the agent then began discussing what in actual fact were “completely normal transactions,” such as, “paying with cash, purchasing long guns, and other similarly innocuous behavior.”
The FBI agent then reportedly made a shocking remark that almost seems too chilling to believe.
“If you see some Middle Eastern guy come in, you don’t have to be so worried about that. What we’re really looking for are people talking about being sovereign such as sovereign citizens or people talking about big government,” the agent reportedly stated.
Before the agent left the store, he handed the employee a flyer which lists paying with cash, buying in bulk, along with other seemingly innocuous behavior as suspicious activity.
While there’s little chance of verifying the story since the FBI would almost certainly deny the claim, the notion of FBI agents charactering innocuous activity as a potential indication of terrorism is firmly established in the federal agency’s own literature and training procedures.
The FBI has also repeatedly labeled those who identify as “sovereign citizens” to be domestic terrorists.
In 2012, we reported on how the FBI’s Communities Against Terrorism (CAT) program was instructing businesses that banal activities conducted by millions of Americans on a daily basis were potential indications of terrorist activity.
Flyers for the program being handed out to businesses such as Internet cafes even listed paying for a cup of coffee with cash as a suspicious activity.
A flyer aimed at Military Surplus stores also encourages owners to report people who “make bulk purchases of items to include….meals ready to eat”.
In total, there are 25 different CAT flyers aimed at businesses from across the spectrum – everything from hobby shops to tattoo parlors.
The flyer pictured above which was reportedly handed to the gun store worker by the FBI agent contains very similar language to that used in flyers produced for the FBI’s Communities Against Terrorism program.
There are a lot of people that fully support local county/city governments and simply put up with the Feds because there is nothing that can be done. I wonder what the FBI thinks of those people.
in WW2 it was illegal to “hoard” food in the UK, however that was then and this is now, firstly the UK government dosent have the manpower to go door to door and secondly the modern population wouldn’t stand for it, however TPTB could accomplish this by simply taking over the supermarkets and putting a limit on what we can buy in one visit.
Yeah, chances are they will just take our shit away. Thats why I have My BOB and supplies hidden away, and then back ups hidden around the house. But if they do take away our stuff I would have already bugged out, because obviously something is going down.
with a population of only 1,300 here most of which only keep about 3 days worth of food , I think they’ll find its counter productive.
@bigpaul 19683 wrote:
with a population of only 1,300 here most of which only keep about 3 days worth of food , I think they’ll find its counter productive.
I live on military land, so chances are I would be searched. So I have to hide my stuff.
yep, you’ll be searched coming and going I expect. I live on the very edge of a small rural market town, cut in two by the river, 1 mile from the parish border, very quiet.
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